Monkey Tools Forum

jamiehardt · 2010-02-26 12:19:36

Two contradictory thoughts, bear with me:

- (deleted)

- If you are exporting the simple FLAC, have youn considered packaging the "--keep-foreign-metadata" option into the export options as well? This is obligatory when you're FLAC'ing audio files from a Pro Tools session for archival. I've been using a script the combines this with a roundtrip deconverstion and binary diff with the original WAV/AIFF files, but again this might be beyond the scope of what you're tyring to accomplish.

- Setting that aside, have you considered putting a checkbox in that does the same as " flac -V/--verify" and stops the conversion on negative verification?

If you don't do any of this I'll just keep using my scripts, just curious. It seems like about nobody in film/television is even aware of FLAC, let alone the options, so I'm not sure if it would make a difference to anyone aside from a few of us avowed nutcases.

Last edited by jamiehardt (2010-02-26 13:10:18)

jamiehardt · 2010-02-26 12:21:35

Ignore that first point, I'm a moron.

Stevo · 2010-03-02 11:11:33

Hi Jamie,

It's interesting you bring up using FLAC as an archival format - I was just thinking about this the other day myself - how to reduce the amount of storage space needed for archiving, without using lossy compression. FLAC seems to be the sole leader at the moment.

Without getting into the details of their command-line tool implementation versus our GUI implementation, it sounds like the big picture concern is to be able to use FLAC as an archival format where sometime in the future you would be able to (b) restore your editing environment and (c) have full confidence that it is an accurate restoration. Would this be a correct understanding?

If so, for (b), there can be many things in the original file that don't need to be archived and many things that do need to be archived. If you can tell us what the list is of things that do need to be archived, we can look into what we can do to make sure those things go back and forth from AIFF/WAVE <=> FLAC.

For (c), we are always using the latest release version of FLAC. Our assumption is that it is bug free and any bugs get fixed in the updates. Have you encountered a situation where the -V flag has caught an invalid encoding with a release version of FLAC?

We totally support your efforts in forging ahead into undiscovered territory in the pro audio world! We feel a bit like Lewis and Clark ourselves when it comes to building modern, professional tools with great support in a field that seems to value "this is the way it's always been.". Please keep the feedback coming!

jamiehardt · 2010-03-04 12:19:25

For (c), we are always using the latest release version of FLAC. Our assumption is that it is bug free and any bugs get fixed in the updates. Have you encountered a situation where the -V flag has caught an invalid encoding with a release version of FLAC?

I have actually, but only very rarely. Something common to sounds that fail verification is full-scale samples in the file. If a file has a big snap or I recorded something that clipped, there's a possibility that FLAC will verify false. The FLAC file I get back sounds fine, though, and I never seriously investigated the difference.

When I archive files from a Pro Tools session, I use the following shell script to ensure that the roundtrip through FLAC is byte-for-byte accurate with the source file...

http://gist.github.com/244986

Stevo · 2010-03-12 15:12:36

jamiehardt wrote:
When I archive files from a Pro Tools session, I use the following shell script to ensure that the roundtrip through FLAC is byte-for-byte accurate with the source file...

http://gist.github.com/244986

Thanks for linking your script.

In our scenario, things are a little more complicated. When exporting a file (assuming no plugins or normalizing or other audio conversion), the audio contents of course come from the original file, however, the metadata can come from a variety of places - the original file, anything added in the Asset Info tab or Asset List, and anything specified in the Metadata tab. You also have the ability to delete metadata that you don't want.

In regards to your original post, is it ultimately the ProTools metadata that you are looking to have upon un-archiving? We'd be glad to work with you in adding whatever is necessary to archive the needed metadata, we'll just need to know what that list is.

jamiehardt · 2010-03-12 15:33:09

Don't worry about the metadata, I'll just keep using my solution...

FLAC or ALAC verification would still be a nice feature for us paranoiacs; in the case of plugins, the comparison of the data in the file could be done with the output of the plugins, instead of the input file. Just ignore the metadata in that instance.

jamiehardt · 2010-03-12 22:32:19

Just to give you some context, I posted my results using your software on gearslutz, and I had a lot of trouble convincing people that lossless compression actually "worked"

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-pro … brary.html

If there was a verify function you might be able to overcome a measure of doubt on the part of some people.

Monkey Tools Forum

#1 2010-02-26 12:19:36

FLAC and OGG

#2 2010-02-26 12:21:35

Re: FLAC and OGG

#3 2010-03-02 11:11:33

Re: FLAC and OGG

#4 2010-03-04 12:19:25

Re: FLAC and OGG

#5 2010-03-12 15:12:36

Re: FLAC and OGG

jamiehardt wrote:

#6 2010-03-12 15:33:09

Re: FLAC and OGG

#7 2010-03-12 22:32:19

Re: FLAC and OGG

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